In the Beginning and the End, Part One
Friday, March 5th, 2010
I have done my best to be 100% honest in telling my story. I am too afraid that Bob will find the blog and try to start a lawsuit or I will be humiliated like the guy from A Million Pieces to be dishonest. 
I have changed names and locations to protect the innocent (and not so innocent who could try to sue me, haha), but other than that, it is completely accurate from my perspective (Bob might disagree with me on a few things, but I’m sticking to what I wrote). However, there are some things that I have wanted to share just in the name of getting the entire story out as fairly as possible, but I haven’t been able to figure out how to do that without giving too much information away about these people involved. I have been trying to figure out for months how to do this, but I haven’t been able to. It came up in the comments, though, so I think I am going to try. However. One very important caveat: this is not entirely true. I never did figure out how to be 100% truthful about it, so I have fudged a few details and left some others out entirely. This is about 90-95% true. However, the gist of it is true. It’s to make sure that Bob and Mark stay Bob and Mark instead of their real names. (If you are really lost and have no idea who Bob and Mark are, click here for help.) I also put in some dialogue. I doubt that it is word for word how the conversation went, but again, the gist of it is true.
I’m actually surprised no one has asked me about what happened right after that night and how did I end up separating from Bob, moving, and in with Steve. Well, it went kind of like this (kinda).
The Morning After
This was taken in the bookstore the morning after the Mark and Bob thing
I woke up in kind of a daze. In some ways, well, a lot of ways, I felt good. I had been put on some sort of pedestal for so long, it felt good to hit the ground. I felt like a human. I smiled to myself as I took a shower.
When I walked into the living room, Bob and Mark were awake and dressed and hungry. Over pancakes, Mark grinned at me. “You’ve almost caught up with Bob!” He said.
“What?” I asked.
“With how many people you’ve slept with,” he told me.
I looked at him, completely confused. “No. We’ve both slept with two people now.” Mark glanced at Bob.
“I thought you slept with that girl in Oklahoma,” Mark told Bob.
Bob looked down at the table. “No, he had a crush on her, but he didn’t sleep with her,” I said.
“Oh, I thought you did,” Mark said.
I stared at him. “Did you?” I asked.
Bob cleared his throat. “I told you,” he said.
Completely confused now, I replied, “No, you didn’t.”
“I’m sorry,” he apologized.
He’d told me he’d slept with one girl before we started dating. I have no idea why he lied to me. It’s not like two is so much greater than one. It’s not like it was a big deal to me that he’d slept with one person. To this day, I have no idea why he lied about it. And yes, he did lie. He said one person: Crystal. And he’d said he’d liked this other girl, but he never said he slept with her. With our conversations on the matter, to this day, I don’t believe that he honestly thought he’d told me.
I wasn’t mad, just confused about why he would lie to me. So we hung around the bookstore before we headed back to our crappy town and our crappy life.
“So what did you think about last night?” Bob asked as we pulled out of the parking lot. Sunshine spilled everywhere, and the cool weather made it hard to stay in a bad mood.
I didn’t really know what to say. On the one hand, I felt a bit liberated. On the other hand, I felt completely betrayed. So I told him the good part hoping the bad part would melt away. “Good,” I answered. “I had fun.”
He smiled. “I’m glad.” He paused. “Think you might want to do it again?”
I didn’t really know what to say. I did have fun. I wanted to be a good wife; a fun wife. I wanted to be what he wanted. But I didn’t want this to be what he wanted. Did I say that? No, I did not. I said, “Yeah, probably.” So really, I don’t blame him for being so surprised later when I told him how betrayed I felt.
Somehow, the conversation turned to me doing things with other men when Bob wasn’t around. “I don’t care what you do,” he said, “as long as you tell me about it and you don’t kiss them.” Yeah, someone watched Pretty Woman a few too many times. And he told me this multiple times. He told me this before that night when I brought it up as a potential future problem. He told me this after that morning. He said he didn’t care. And really, at that point, I didn’t feel like he had a right to care after putting me in that position.
I don’t remember how it happened, but somehow, I ended up going to Fayetteville that Monday and Tuesday night to have some alone time to think.
Monday Night
It is important to note here for those who don’t know that Bob and Steve knew each other. I think I’ve said it on here before, but they were roommates in college and I met them both the same day. They became best friends, so I saw him frequently even though I didn’t really like him. We became friends while I was pregnant with Julieanne, but as I was married and trying to adjust to motherhood and deal with the joys of ministry and a fun marriage, and he was off enjoying bachelorhood, we honestly never had any sparks. There was nothing latent or suppressed. We just didn’t think of each other that way. Really. But over the preceding months, we had gotten to be pretty good friends. Not best friends, but I started enjoying it when he came over. Bob and Steve mostly played video games, so it’s not like I was really one of them, but there were dinners and conversations. We were kind of like family. Steve brought a girlfriend over to meet us once. He was like an uncle or something.
Anyways, he lived in Fayetteville at the time, so when I spent a couple nights there, I asked him if he was free for dinner because I didn’t want to eat by myself. This wasn’t out of the ordinary, as when I was pregnant, we ate dinner together a lot while Bob worked. He would kind of watch out and make sure I was okay while Bob was gone. We used to joke about how we were dating, but we really didn’t think of each other as more than friends. Anyways, Steve said yes and we met at Chili’s.
Over dinner, I told him the story of what happened with Bob and Mark. His eyes grew wide. “Bob didn’t tell me all that!” he exclaimed. I looked down at my food, desperately wanting to ask a question that had bothered me. Finally, I mustered the courage.
“Would you have done that to your wife?”
He stopped. “I-I-no.” He finally stated. “I’m sorry, but no.”
I nodded. We finished dinner and walked around Wal Mart. I forgot what we were looking for, but on our way to the checkout, Bob called. “Hey, I can’t find Julieanne’s blanket,” he said.
“It probably slipped under her pillow.”
“Oh, okay. Hey, is that Steve with you?”
“Yeah.”
“Oh. What’s he doing with you?”
“What? We just ate dinner,” I exclaimed, completely shocked at the accusation I heard in his voice. He said okay and I hung up the phone. It was really weird because he’d never acted even the slightest bit jealous before. Obviously he didn’t care what I did with whom!
Steve looked at me. I think we both sensed that something had changed. Walking by a rack of movies, we started exploring. I found a copy of Kill Bill. “Oh, I’ve been wanting to see this, but Bob won’t let me,” I laughed.
Steve stopped. “What? You want to watch Kill Bill?”
“Yeah, but Bob always tells me I’ll hate it!”
“He told me you didn’t want to see it and you didn’t even want it in the house.”
I stared at him dumbfounded. I think that is the moment it all hit me: Bob lied to me and about me. “Does he tell you about when he’s mad at me?”
Steve looked at me a bit confused. “Yeah, why?”
He told me he didn’t, that’s why. Then it all came crashing down.
“What do you guys do when he’s at your house?” I asked.
“Mostly play video games.”
In a thin, timid voice, I asked, “Porn?”
“Yeah, sometimes he looks at it when I step outside for a cigarette.”
That was the moment I knew our marriage was officially unsalvageable. Not because of the porn itself, but because of the lies. He told me he didn’t look at it, but I suspected he did. I’d had a sneaking suspicion that he had cheated on my while he worked at Pizza Hut, but blew it off, blaming it on pregnancy hormones. He would come home incredibly late. Way later than made sense for a 10:00 closing time. We’re talking 1, 2am. Sometimes later. He would say he went to Steve’s house on those days, though. And suddenly, it all flashed before my eyes: those late nights, the manager who texted him on Christmas and called him (instead of her perfectly capable boyfriend) to drive an hour to rescue her from car trouble. There was also the girl he said had a huge crush on him once and was back in town. I remembered a conversation we’d had once. He came home laughing. “Steve thinks I’m having an affair!” he grinned. I laughed. “Steve’s nuts. I trust you completely!” Now it didn’t seem so funny. If I was right about the porn, was I right about the affair, too?
“Do you think he was having an affair when he worked at Pizza Hut?” I asked.
“Yeah,” he sighed. “Yes, I do.”
“Did he tell you that?”
“No, he didn’t. But it just seemed like it.”
I still have no idea if he did or not. Part of me says, nah! Another part of me says he did. I am not accusing him of it, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised, either.
Interesting to note here that I didn’t entirely trust Steve, either. My world came crashing down and I was full of conspiracy theories. Maybe Bob wanted out of the relationship, so Steve was telling me all these things so I’d leave. Maybe Steve wanted to be with me, so he was telling me all of these things so we would get a divorce. It took me a long time before I could trust Steve. I still have trouble trusting him sometimes, just because I was let down so hard and in some ways, he was part of it.
Somehow that night, though, things changed with Steve and me. It was like knowing that Bob didn’t really care that much about me opened up some floodgates of emotion we honestly had no idea was there. Relaxing together that night at dinner, shopping, and a movie (Brave One) was somehow different than all the other dinners and movies we had before. I didn’t really know what to make of these new feelings, but I mostly ignored them. I was a married woman. No way was I going to destroy my marriage for a crush! Especially not with a one year old in the picture.
Anyways, after dinner, movie, and shopping, we headed back to Steve’s apartment. And I confided in him. I hadn’t confided in anybody in a really long time, and it felt good to be completely honest about how I felt about the ministry, religion, my marriage, motherhood, everything. For once, somebody noticed that I was about to fall off the edge. Even better, they cared. That night, I became visible for the first time in a long time.
But I headed back to my hotel room at 11pm feeling lonelier than I ever had.
To be continued…
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March 5th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
You’re a very good writer. I’m anxious to read the rest of the story. As I read it…it felt very familiar, and…it also makes me a little angry (no not at you, of course). Some of it is similar to my own story, except with a few twists. I truly don’t want to put mine on the web, but I would tell you more privately some time. Our threesome situation was a bit different, and I certainly can’t entirely blame it on my ex husband (yes, the minister one), but the “vibe” of it all…is very similar. I don’t know. We’ll have to talk about this one some time. We missed this topic in our last chat.
I think some men have very interesting ways of doing and getting EXACTLY what they personally want….and then finding a way to blame it on their wife. Minister types MIGHT just be particularly good at this, since they have such guilt and blame complexes. Yeah…that’s just a theory of mine, but it’s possible. Not being sexist here, by the way…I’m sure that the situation sometimes works in reverse with the woman being the master guilt deflector too. It’s just that MY OWN experiences with this…have been with men doing that. (And as you know…I have had opportunity to experience long term relationships with both men and women. Have never had this problem in a female/female relationship. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe men really do have a knack for this little mind game.)
March 5th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I find it fascinating that those who are troubled by their own sexuality seem to be attracted to religion. There is a popular aphorism that ‘patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel’. I am convinced that religion is the first.
In what may be the ultimate irony, the only sexual ‘perversion’ that is not found anywhere in the animal kingdom but only in humans is celibacy.
http://www.drtatiana.com/ for those who find this unlikely!
March 6th, 2010 at 8:42 am
I read your story and I really feel for you. I actually would want to punch Bob for it. But what I don’t understand is why oh why you did not press charges !!!! Your husband make you drink and then make you sleep with someone else… Both rape outside wedlock and inside are punishable crimes. I feel like you make it too easy for them and too easy for them to reproduce this ! (and I don’t want to be mad at you or anything). But to my point of view you’ve been raped… not just manipulated by your ex…
March 6th, 2010 at 9:53 am
I guess I just never saw it as rape until I started this blog. Mostly, I blamed myself. Even now, even if I did decide to press charges, it would just be my word against his, and I doubt anything would come of it at all.
March 6th, 2010 at 9:54 am
I haven’t read large portions of your story, but this article…wow. How horrible. That makes me angry at your husband.
Sophie, I think that in the case of spousal rape, emotions can complicate the victim’s response. Love, even though it seems undeserved, can make the hurt spouse cover up the event and mentally deny how humiliating what happened was. By the time a divorce takes place, a lot of people will assume that the charges are brought up by an angry spouse and not by a victim.
It was bizarre that your husband admitted to sleeping with one girl, prior to marriage, but didn’t own up to the second girl.
March 6th, 2010 at 9:59 am
On top of that, it was never forceful. He never physically forced me to do anything, so I guess it didn’t meet my idea of rape. Even now, if you take it to the strictest letter of the law, it rides the line and it actually depends on what state (and even what country, from what I understand) you’re in as to whether or not it meets the legal definition. Plus, I still don’t feel right comparing myself to the trauma I’ve seen from other women who have been raped. I didn’t go through nearly what a lot of women do.
And Debrand, yeah, I never figured out why he admitted one and not the other. So weird.
March 6th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Debrand : yes I totally understand why Laura would guilt herself. I worked at a women’s health center and I had a friend working at a women shelter too. But still, what I see in this blog is a lot of understanding what was wrong with Laura’s ex. I would have assumed that what took place would be called rape too. At least for the sake of the women who might be passing through the same thing (and I am not trying to guilt you into it).
Rape does not necessarily involve forcefull force though. I’ll look for a feminist article about rape that I read about and try in a way to send it (can you email me or something ?).
Laura did you consult with a lawyer about what pressing charges would do ? You were under the influence of alcohol, everyone was telling you to be submisive to your husband… what other choice did you have but to accept the situation ??? Do not blame yourself for what happen. you were in no position to refuse what was happenning. Rape does not need to be full of violence, it just needs to be non consensual…
March 6th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Off-topic, sorry. New reader here (atheist).
Even though I’ve seen links to your blog, I’d never explored it. Finally decided to check out your site via “My Sister’s Farmhouse”.
Took a while, but I’m all caught up now. Phew!
You write very well and have this reader riveted. Keep up the great work, and stay strong!
March 6th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
“Plus, I still don’t feel right comparing myself to the trauma I’ve seen from other women who have been raped. I didn’t go through nearly what a lot of women do.”
Laura, that will always be the case. People who are raped through psychological and emotional manipulation and coercion, feel it’s not fair to compare that rape to one that was physically forceful and dominating, those who are raped by a single man feel that it’s not fair to compare to those who were gang raped, those who recover completely physically think they can’t compare to those who are permanently disfigured or injured by a sexual assault, and people who survive at all compare themselves to torture/rape/murders and still think they come out ahead. So yeah, I understand your feeling, but just understand that the system just seems to try to pit women against each other on who can “legitimately” call themselves “enough” of a victim. It would not undermine the trauma and understanding for others, to call what happened to you rape. That said, if you don’t want to think of it that way, it’s your mind and your experience, so I think in many ways, it’s up to you what you want to term it.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:33 am
I don’t get a sense of victimization from this at all — if every time one party manipulated the other into sex (especially this sort of thing, it’s extremely common for it to be a fantasy-fulfillments) was rape, then … well, at some point it becomes necessary for all parties involved to have notarized consent and a three day waiting period. And we’re hormonal mammals, that’s just not practical. And yes, I have been raped, and I have been badgered and cajoled into sexual acts I didn’t particularly fancy, and they are very very different things.
Anyway, that’s not my point, and I fully expect to get flamed by feminists for saying it, but I’m fine with that.
My point was, that so much good came of it — so much truth, and so much eventual freedom from a life of crushing wrongness with a LIAR. That kind of lying — habitual, deeply ingrained, even reflexive — not really even deliberate, not like he stopped to chew a Twix and think about it, it was just part of the pattern. The same pattern that would, for instance, result in a pastor not just fantasizing, but actually acting on it in such a completely and beyond-a-doubt against all the rules of for regular Christians, let alone for those ordained to minister to them — he was never even honest with himself, how could he be with anyone else? Anyone who lies that often and with that kind of fluency is doing so because they have very little connection with their own reality, so it’s difficult if not impossible for them to communicate in a way that expresses that reality.
The somewhat traumatic events that surrounded the first inklings of the actual truth behind those lies might not have been the most pleasant way to begin the escape, but what else would have stirred up the truth like that, brought it to the surface? It’s not like liars whose lies are effectively holding their whole lives together tend to spontaneously decide to go with reality for a change. They just go on and on, unless something blows up on them. So it’s difficult, but in the end, so worth it.
March 7th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Godlizard, did you read the part of the story that actually described the event? If you only read this post, I can certainly see why you might not consider the event to be rape. But the post desribing the event does sound as if something more then pressure was applied to Laura.
Slightly off topic, I have been reading a lot of fundamentalist sites that claim that a Christian woman should NEVER turn down her husband’s sexual advances. I would imagine that would create a mindset in which the woman is open to be pressured into acts that she does not want to do. I think also that a lot of men never discover that their wives are unhappy with their sex lives. They might honestly believe that their wives are enjoying what they are doing.
March 7th, 2010 at 9:21 am
@godlizard : no matter what could have happenned without this event, what happenned did happen. I think there’s no point in wondering what other thing could have triggered the realization of the problems.
@debrand : when you don’t have the right to say no or to understand what’s going to happen and in this case when you’ve been intoxicated to blur your judgement, this is rape. Every non consensual act is rape. No matter the force involved.
@ godlizard : don’t need for a written consent. At least talk to the person you want to have sex with someone else. She has never been consulted. She did not really want to have sex in the first place. It’s not oh you got manipulated into having sex. NO. She’s been put in a situation where she could not say no. Whereas every sexual act should be explicitly consensual. For me this did not happen. I think that at least acknoledging it on the posts would be good in case other women who might have an easier case to go to court with, realize that this is rape. And I am sorry I brought it up so harshly, I should have been more tactful in bringing in case it was a very difficult thing and so that you’d have no breakdown. My apologies.
March 7th, 2010 at 10:13 am
I kind of have to agree with godlizard. I have had people tell me it’s rape no matter what I say, and it has gotten to the point where I don’t know what would satisfy people that at least Mark should be exonerated. What Bob did was manipulative and abusive, but I wouldn’t call that rape. I realize now that in my previous comments on this thread, I have been a bit unclear. When I am talking about riding the line, I am conceding that maybe that stuff from later that night could qualify as spousal rape, but not the first thing that involved both Mark and Bob and it is all VERY murky.
No, it wasn’t explicitly consensual in that I had told Bob I didn’t want to do it, but I didn’t tell Mark that. What should have happened is that Mark and I should have discussed it while sober. But we didn’t, we were both intoxicated, and Bob had told him I wanted to do it. Not an ideal situation, but I don’t think Mark did anything more wrong than I did. Bob, though. I do acknowledge that what he did was sexually abusive. Really to both of us, the way he lied and connived. And later that night, yeah, he did without my permission. I didn’t tell him no, but I didn’t give any kind of yes either (that I recall). However, rape? I don’t know. It depends on where you live.
March 7th, 2010 at 11:27 am
Sophie, I wasn’t disagreeing with you that Laura’s account sounds like rape. Perhaps Mark did not understand Laura’s unwillingness, but her husband certainly did.
My point was that perhaps Godlizard’s opinion would change if he read the previous post on the subject.
March 7th, 2010 at 11:52 am
oh Laura, I think a lot of people agree with you about Mark. It’s possible for a husband to rape with an object, with some sex toy, and I think he raped you with Mark. When he talked to you separately, he misled you on what the other thought, and then he got both of you very drunk so as not to have any judgment or ability to not do what he said. You can call it whatever you want, but I think Bob borrowed Mark’s genitals to rape you with, just like if he was raping with a sex toy. I think very few people will read what you say of the situation and think Mark raped you. I think a very many of them will read what you say and determine that Bob raped you (more than once). I’m really not talking of the legality of the situation, I really don’t think you can get convictions in these sorts of situations, but I *do* think that it is valid to call it rape. Just because it’s not provable in a court of law (most rapes fit this category, actually) doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
March 7th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
This is probably sexual battery by means of fraud, however you are right to be cautious about proceeding against ‘Bob’:
Blame the victim: Religious leaflet claims ‘ungodly’ dressed women provoke rape
March 7th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Yes I think too that Bob is more guilty than Mark EVEN THOUGH I’d say he has it easy to rely on Bob’s judgement instead to ask the woman he was going to have sex with, I think showing the kind of respect he has for women.
I know nothing about judgements about rape, but I find it really sad if you can’t press charges on this kinds of things. Still I’m sure you could find some support in women’s organization if you’d find the need to, be it today or anytime. ^^
March 7th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Wow, Laura. I just don’t know what to say. And this guy is a Christian minister??? No wonder people have problems with religion. How can we trust what people in leadership positions are saying is right when they do things like this? UGH I want to punch this man (both, actually) in the face for you, repeatedly.
March 8th, 2010 at 3:50 am
Laura, I find it odd that some of the things that pushed you over the edge seem pretty mundane, but some of those that I find appalling are, while not ok, dismissed by you.
I’m with Steve 100% on the “I’m sorry, but no” thing – I think the word “rape” covers a large area that has gray boundaries. But in your case your trust was betrayed in a totally unacceptable way by Bob – and strangely you continued on your merry way. Having read the Most Harm a while ago, I figured the next morning involved you sobering up, kicking Bob and Mark in their respective groinal areas and walking out the door (life is never so simple).
But the porn thing pushes you over the edge. There was that study recently where they wanted to compare the attitudes of men that watched porn and those that didn’t – and they had to cancel it because they could find a control group.
I find that odd. Of course, it is most likely that it has to be taken in a whole context thing.
March 8th, 2010 at 5:51 am
@jemand
There is a pattern. One person interviewed a bunch of Medal of Honor winners. In almost every case, the interviewee said something to the effect that he was just lucky, and not really deserving of the medal. The others really deserved it and made the interviewee feel like a piker.
Laura went through what, in hindsight, is a pretty traumatic experience. But she is empathic enough to put others ahead of her and adopt an attitude of “I wasn’t hurt nearly as bad as these other people”, which is a good thing. Understanding that she was hurt, knowing she lived through it, knowing that others suffered even more all helps recovery. But it doesn’t change the nature of the act.
As to whether or not this was really rape.. NPR has a series of stories. This is one of the big ones: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124272157
Different weapons are used in rape. Getting the victim drunk is just one of the weapons. That doesn’t un make it from being rape.
One can only hope that if Bob tries this kind of shenanigans again, the victim is sober enough to give him the beat down/arrest he deserves, before he can carry out his plan.
March 8th, 2010 at 6:53 am
David, yes, it was pretty odd looking back. At the time, I felt dazed. I didn’t know what was normal and what was unacceptable. That’s why I asked Steve if he would have done it–I didn’t know. I thought maybe I was being prudish when I finally did feel upset. The lying, though, I knew was unacceptable. It wasn’t the porn itself–I had told him months ago that I was okay with it.
rich h, I do wonder what will happen with this new marriage. He does learn from his mistakes in that what gets him in trouble once will prevent him from doing it the same way again. When we first got together, he told me his ex girlfriend accused him of abuse. He made her out to be quite the piece of work, cheating on him with the cable guy, etc, so we laughed it off. Definitely a shoulda coulda woulda moment and now I wish I had her side of the story as it all sounds all too familiar. I assumed at the time he meant physical abuse. Maybe not, though. And now I want to know if she cheated like I “cheated” or if there was something else that happened.
March 8th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Laura,
One thing to remember about interpersonal relationships:
Every woman and every man is part asshole. The difference is only in the proportions.
March 8th, 2010 at 8:47 am
“But she is empathic enough to put others ahead of her and adopt an attitude of “I wasn’t hurt nearly as bad as these other people”, which is a good thing. Understanding that she was hurt, knowing she lived through it, knowing that others suffered even more all helps recovery.”
I am not convinced that in every case that is true. Women in fundamentalist contexts sometimes have been conditioned SO much to ALWAYS put others first that sometimes they need to acknowledge that, in fact, they *did* get hurt, and pointing to a worse “martyr” doesn’t make their hurt acceptable. I think some people *stay* in bad situations because they can think of someone who had it worse. I think it can sometimes be vital to recovery to admit that, while someone might have been raped *worse* than you, you, in fact, were raped. Or abused, or whatever. And I don’t think that necessarily changes the empathy for those who suffered worse. I’m not talking about Laura’s situation anymore, just in general. Sometimes “I wasn’t hurt as bad as others” is nothing more than a strategy to self-martyr and minimize any harm to one’s self, in which case it is very unhealthy. Other times, it is simply a statement of fact, which the speaker doesn’t mean to excuse her own abuse with. A third case without that phrase *might* be wallowing in one’s victimhood without moving forward. The first and last are NOT conducive to healing.
March 8th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Jemand,
I think there is a lot of truth in what you say, but a corollary is that rape causes damage, whereas consensual sex doesn’t normally. Shouldn’t a woman try to sense if she has unnoticed emotional damage to confirm if she has been raped?
March 8th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
That thing where they tell you about their past bad behavior or say they’ve been “accused of” being abusive is a huge red flag – it’s a way of testing your reactions to see how much bad behavior you’ll put up with.
March 8th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@jemand
Point made. I hadn’t thought about it that way, and you are right. I was thinking more of the situation from the outside looking in, rather than how she might actually have lived the situation.
March 9th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
The more I read of your story, the more angry I am at your parents. I know it’s not really rational – neither you nor they are responsible for the bad stuff that happened to you as an adult.
But at the same time…the whole goal of parenting is to produce an adult. A grown person who will need some defenses. And they deliberately raised you to have as few as could be managed. I know they were trying to do the right thing and blah blah blah but it really does seem like the whole system just exists to turn out girls and women with no ability to defend themselves from maltreatment.
My folks did some of shitty parenting but living with my dad was an education, all by itself, in how to spot an addict or an abuser. I never thought to thank him for that (tho i’m not sure he’d appreciate it now…when he was in AA maybe.)
March 10th, 2010 at 12:22 am
Laura, I have been following your blog as best I can, and have been commenting on some postings. I think you are an amazing and brave woman to tackle an issue that so many caught up in ministry are dealing with. I think I mentioned that I’m a former minister that left the faith, and went through stuff similar to what you describe. For the first time since I came upon your blog, this posting raised some red flags. Basically it was this paragraph:
“Interesting to note here that I didn’t entirely trust Steve, either. My world came crashing down and I was full of conspiracy theories. Maybe Bob wanted out of the relationship, so Steve was telling me all these things so I’d leave. Maybe Steve wanted to be with me, so he was telling me all of these things so we would get a divorce. It took me a long time before I could trust Steve. I still have trouble trusting him sometimes, just because I was let down so hard and in some ways, he was part of it.”
One of the things I did learn, and have found through practical experience to be true, is that people who were in abusive relationships tend to end up back in abusive relationships. I’m not saying that this is the case here, and you can tell me to f**k off if you want, but I only bring this up because I have seen this over and over again, of both people of faith and people of no faith, and, I do not wish to see someone that has endured so much pain to have to go through it all over again. I’m no longer a praying man, but you are in my thoughts. I do hope you find the happiness that you so deserve. I also hope that “Bobs” new family/wife sees this person for who/what he is before more lives are destroyed. I also hope that “Bob” truly embraces the message he supposedly believes, and changes his life. I may no longer believe in the God of the Bible, but I do believe that karma’s a bitch. One way or another he will get what’s coming to him. I have many more thoughts on this, but I think I will leave it at that. Know that many of your readers care for you.
March 10th, 2010 at 5:15 am
No, I appreciate the concern, but I promise Steve has not been anything less than terrific. Well, except when he tells me he’ll do the laundry and it doesn’t get done for 3 more days.
My fears stemmed mostly from the previous betrayal, and I didn’t want to go through anything like that again. He has never given me reason to not trust him, and if he did, I think I am a lot stronger now and would deal with it much more effectively than I did last time.
Yes, people do tend to end up with the same sort of person over and over again. I think I am lucky in that regard. There are patterns and red flags you can be trained to learn. So it’s so far, so good. And if that changes, well, guess I’ll have a lot more blog material! :S
April 27th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Excellent writing, you have a voice that needs to be heard. Thank you for taking a chance and being so open. I’m so very sorry that happened to you. Loss of trust is horrible, especially when it comes from someone who vowed to love and protect you.