A History of Religion
Sunday, February 7th, 2010
It’s getting confusing, I think, to keep straight when I was what, so I thought I would lay it out to clear up any misunderstandings!
1980’s
I think when I was born in 1983, my parents would be considered more evangelical as opposed to fundamentalist. What’s the difference? I’m not sure there is one, but I differentiate between evangelical/conservative and fundamentalist in the following way: evangelicals are basically a step up from fundamentalists. Fundamentalists seem to have a fear of the world that evangelicals don’t always have, so fundies often homeschool (because public schools are evil, not for other reasons), avoid television, keep a stricter eye on reading material (and now Internet material!), dress more conservatively, etc. There are levels of extreme within fundamentalism, of course, but that is basically where I draw the line. I hear the same messages from evangelicals as I do fundamentalists: a proudness of intolerance, salvation in Jesus alone, etc, but evangelicals don’t seem to have the same problems with watching television or sending their children to public school that fundamentalists often have. Like, since Sarah Palin is in an authority position and works long hours outside the home, I would count her as an evangelical even though she holds some of the same extremist beliefs as other fundamentalists.
1990’s
I don’t know what happened, but I do remember watching Duck Tales and Sesame Street after preschool every day until my parents sat me down and told me they decided that was too much television, and I could choose. From there, it went to no television and private school. My parents basically straddled the line between fundamentalism and evangelicalism throughout my childhood. My mother worked, but to this day I have not seen Fantasia. My two younger brothers were homeschooled, but I went to public school 8th-12th grade. I went to every fundie/evangelical sponsored conference and seminar, but was allowed to wear jeans. My parents loved Bill Gothard and James Dobson, but my mom and I wore our hair short/medium length. I think that’s precisely why I never fit in anywhere: I was too liberal for the hard core fundamentalists, but too conservative for mainstream evangelicals. (And those examples should probably help clear up my distinction between fundamentalism and evangelicalism, and probably clarify why I make one!) Heck, even now, when reading No Longer Quivering or posting away on Free Jinger, I don’t really feel like I fit in with those who lived so much more extremely than I did. But we were more extreme than mainstream Christians, too, and I have a lot of the same ignorance of pop culture, so I post anyways. 
Anyways, in 1990, I was saved and baptized at First Baptist Church in Dardanelle, Arkansas. I attended a Christian school in Russellville, which goes by another name now if it still exists. Since my mom worked part time evenings, she and my little brother attended a community Bible study one morning a week. There, she met people from a different church. Dissatisfied with the lack of fellowship they saw in mainstream denominations, they tried this new church, the Christian and Missionary Alliance. What’s the difference between CAMA and Baptist? The only answer I’ve ever gotten is that the government is structured differently. My parents still attend this church, but I have noticed it is no longer the friendly, welcoming place it once was. The last few times I went, there were a ton of people I didn’t know, but I was treated no differently than I would have been in a Baptist or Methodist or any other denominational church. They go now because they’ve been so long, they’ve become pillars, so they still get the fellowship they once craved. I once loved this church, but it is just a shade of it’s former self. Just about everybody in my generation has left it. Hardly anyone has been there since they were small. (A few do. One of whom I should write a post on!)
Anyways, I digress.
2002
I started Baptist college in the fall of 2002. I felt excited that there would be more people like me at the school I chose. Except they were mainstream evangelicals, and it confused me. How could they believe the same things I do, but watch R rated movies? Lots of disconnect!
2003-2004
I meet and marry Bob. Here is where some confusion comes in: Bob was never fundamentalist. He was a moderate/conservative evangelical. I took my fundamentalist ideas into the marriage with me, and he took advantage of them (in my view). He wanted me to work because he wanted the extra income, and he wasn’t big into submission the way fundamentalists see it. What he wanted from me was sex and occasional cooking. Literally. But I tried to be his wife in the only way I knew how. My beliefs contributed to the collapse of our marriage in this way.
My beliefs start changing. My first big HUH moment came the summer of 2003, when chatting with a ministry student, I learned of a whole other realm of beliefs and theology I had never encountered. I shoved it to the back of my mind, however, until Bob started bringing the ideas home. Here is where I left behind my fundamentalist beliefs and became simply conservative/evangelical. (However, it is important to note my fundamentalist attitudes were much more ingrained and did not leave so quickly. I still see shades of them today.)
At the very end of 2004, Bob got his first ministry position, and we took the youth group on a trip to Tennessee. I bought a copy of McDowell’s Evidence That Demands a Verdict because I found myself rusty on apologetics when talking to Bob. I didn’t make it very far before realizing how incredibly lacking it really was.
2005-2006
I researched and researched one issue after another. I started with women in the ministry and progressed to gay marriage/gay rights, etc. I read books and Internet articles, became disillusioned with James Dobson, and discovered Tony Campolo and Brian McLaren. I didn’t agree with everything they said, but I loved their more moderate take on Christianity. If they received half of the attention James Dobson or Pat Robertson gets, then I don’t think people would have such a negative view of Christians.
2007
I had a huge faith crisis. The more I read, the less sense my former ideas made. I had been so sure I had all the answers, and I no longer was. I became agnostic, but still in the ministry, was too afraid to admit it. Here is where I started praying every night. And crying every night, begging God to please help me belive and serve because I wasn’t sure I could do it anymore. Add a heaping dose of depression as my marriage began to crumble away, and I didn’t know what to do.
That summer, I gave a presentation to the VBS kids on how to be saved. Right in the middle, I felt horrible for proselytizing little kids. I faltered and stumbled through the rest of my speech, and knew I was pretty much finished.
That fall was when I left Bob.
2008
I gave faith another chance. I remembered how much I loved more moderate/liberal versions of Christianity, so I attended an Episcopalian church for awhile. I loved it. I really did. Well, the extreme formality of the service made me want to laugh out loud a few times. However, I did like the ritual and the fact that high church seemed to respect God so much; in a way that Southern Baptists didn’t. To Baptists and other evangelicals, Jesus is your best friend. But in high church, God is to be revered. I liked that as much as I hated the bumper stickers and t-shirts that reduced the God of the Universe down to a simple, cheesy slogan.
But the questions I had before didn’t just go away. And the more I explored, the more questions I had, and the more I felt like nothing made any sense anymore. I called myself agnostic for most of that year, mostly because I was trying so hard to believe in God. I wanted to so desperately. Even now, I would like to believe in God because I like the Episcopalian church, and would like to be part of it. (I think I would be very welcomed there despite my disbelief, because Episcopalians seem to welcome the questioning of faith, unlike other denominations. That may just be the one local church, however. I really don’t know.) But I just don’t think I can be. At least not now. And I would have to acknowledge that if I ever did become part of any church ever again, it would just be because I liked it and wanted to believe it; not because I actually did or had good reason to. For someone who grew up believing the truth was the most important thing, that would be hard for me to do.
2009
January-ish: I declare myself an atheist and bought a sweatshirt proclaiming my newfound disbelief, along with a Flying Spaghetti Monster necklace! And it felt good to not have to worry about whether God was Episcopalian or Baptist anymore! 
Loading ...
February 7th, 2010 at 1:32 am
Are there any Unitarian Universalists in your area, or Society of Friends (Quakers)? There are many UUs who are atheists – its a covenantial religion, not a creedal one, so there are principles that are agreed on, but all paths are honored and respected. Most of the Quakers Ive known wouldnt require a belief in God/s but a willingness to listen to the small still voice within, which some would say is your conscience. Or a Buddhist church/group? Just thoughts – it seems like you miss the ritual and connection with others, not to mention the potlucks, and there are a lot of spiritual paths that don’t demand filialty to one particular way of believing. And I do think you would find most Episcopalians very warm and open to anyone, regardless of their faith. But you do have to recite the creed.
February 7th, 2010 at 2:35 am
I’m really going to have to email you about all of this! So much of it is familiar! I can’t even go into it in a comment, I can’t email right now with my head how it is, but expect an email response. Also – you are welcome to delete this comment after I read it… it’s not here to add to the discussion, just to give you a head’s up.
February 7th, 2010 at 5:32 am
I’d echo what Carol said, especially about UUs. My wife (agnostic), daughter (agnostic), and I (atheist) attend a UU church and have been in 3 congregations as we’ve moved from city to city. Our current one is a bit New Agey—especially in comparison to the other 2 which were more humanist—but they still welcome a skeptic like me. Someone mocked Unitarianism back in the early 1800s by calling it a “halfway house on the road to infidelity.” My brother jokes that for me it may be a halfway house on the road back to fidelity, but I don’t think so. I see it more as a place to learn how others think about issues of spirituality (for lack of a better term).
For a fun quiz, you can visit http://www.selectsmart.com/RELIGION/
February 7th, 2010 at 5:49 am
I know this is reply is kind of a segue…and not a very good one … and definitely clouded by my own prejudices but…
Have you given any though to being a science teacher? I realize that it would take more education, but you are very good at explaining things, you love kids, and you have an intense respect for truth. I think you could be a very good teacher, and we need more of them.
// end of segue…
I think Pete has an excellent point. If you are still missing the community, a UU church might be just the ticket.
February 7th, 2010 at 8:28 am
I totally understand the bubble you grew up as many Christians attempt to create a world of love and beauty. When the children leave the nest, they oftentimes struggle to understand or deal with the world in which they live.
I joined the ARMY after graduating and lived with those who really had nothing to do with Christianity. I saw up close the lives of those who did not follow Christ. To be honest, I wanted nothing to do with that life. All I saw was pain, hopeless, despair, crude jokes, disregard for women and a lot of evil reflection.
I then went to college and read every non-Christian book I could get my hand on; however, my story ends differently because I am by nature extremely logical. I went to college on a full-ride and was offered full-rides by other colleges. I realized after reading it all that there is no evidence that undermines the resurrection of Christ. Liberals only had creative imagination. I came to know and appreciate the beauty of the Bible even more through the experience. I think every person goes through a time where they have to establish their own life and understand their foundation.
I think another big difference is that the love of God had always filled my heart. I know Christianity is not about getting; rather, it is about loving others as Christ loves us! I cannot imagine life without the love of God in my life. I have seen up close how people live without Christ and I really don’t want that type of thing to define my life. As I travel the atheist’s blog, I usually find a lot of anger. The vast majority of post reflect people who are hurting including yours. At this point you are still young and have not grown bitter yet; however, it won’t be long before you become one of those old bitter angry folks if you stay on your current course.
I have hope for you though. You have seen beauty and beauty always is calling to you. It really is a type of torture and you will find yourself losing your mind if you don’t respond to its call.
God Bless…
February 7th, 2010 at 9:57 am
I’ve been reading PZ Myers and you along with my spate of news papers and such for some months now.
Recently something clicked and I remembered/understood that some people live with such strong religious passion. I knew they where out there before, but I ignored them, or maybe that is not a strong enough phrase. I would walk by a priest and go, ‘oh a priest’ then start thinking about the history or philosophies of religions, or not think about it at all. But recently it hit me: They are out there. Now. Not 100 years ago, but right now. Not in some distant fairy land, but probably in the next apartment over from me. And a good number of them are completely insane. Shit.
Mostly just wanted to say:
Have you seen this series in the Guardian? There are more ‘letters’, can get at them by clicking on the author’s name.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/dec/14/evangelical-marriage-customs
February 7th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Congratulations @ZDENNY you have just demonstrated multiple fallacies in one post.
First, you have made a generalization that the US Army is somehow godless. Which completely contradicts multiple lines of evidence, like the fact that our tax money pays for Christian Chaplains, or generals spout garbage like this: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1016-01.htm, (and http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1004/p13s02-lire.html) or that atheists are persecuted for not believing in your “all loving” god http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html .
Disregard for women? Remove the plank from your own eye, there, Chester.
Your anecdote about reading every “non christian book”…? i don’t suppose you could name some titles? For example, Agatha Christie wouldn’t necessarily be considered “christian” reading material, but she never seemed to support a case for/against christianity. Instead, she wrote mysteries.
Anger at an atheist blog? Well, if you’ve been abused your entire life, and just recently broke free, you might be a little testy yourself, bub. Of course, you don’t seem to regard any of the abuse Laura went through as abuse, since either the people who abused her weren’t “true christians” (like the sin you tried to accuse her parents of) or, since the abuse was in “god’s name” it must not have been abuse.
If you go http://friendlyatheist.com, you will find much less anger, as Hemat became atheist without being subjected to the abuse Laura did. Try your schtick there.
You make a claim about being extremely logical. Would you care to produce any evidence? Because you follow that with this statement: “realized after reading it all that there is no evidence that undermines the resurrection of Christ.”
First, I highly doubt your statement that you read “it all”. Second, I would acquaint you with one of the first argumentative principles of logic, and that is “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”. You are claiming someone rose from the dead. It isn’t up to us to disprove it. You bear the burden of proof. Because in all reliable, recorded history there has not been a reliable account of someone rising from the dead. “Liberals” aren’t the ones with the imagination, you are the one with the “rising from the dead” story.
You are free to present your evidence. If you have your own blog, I would be happy to see your evidence and let you know whether it might be reliable or credible.
You also might want to can the “love” scthick. I’ve pointed out on several occasions how hateful most of your statements are. They reek of hatred for women and Laura in particular. You try to impose your wretched values of intolerance and self loathing back on her. You push your agenda of female subjugation and try to portray your bipolar god’s actions as misunderstood affection. It is all very transparent, unless you define “love” as any kind of action you will associate with your god, no matter how loathsome and hateful it is.
Lastly, personal testimonials aren’t evidence. You can have a genuine 700 foot tall Jesus experience, and that would still be meaningless to me. Because I didn’t see it, and there is no way for me to reproduce your experience. All you saw was pain? You haven’t associated with the same people in the military I did. I didn’t see any of the pain you describe (and before you go there..I was a “born again Christian” when I was in the Navy). Just because you see beauty in the bible doesn’t mean it’s there. (read Judges 19 for one of the most disgusting stories in literature)
Chalchiuhtlicue bless…
February 7th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
I don’t understand anyone that wants religion just for the social aspects. There are plenty of secular activities in life. Hanging around people who perpetuate acidic lies doesn’t sound too helpful.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
I totally dig where you’re at, Red. I grew up the similarly and wound up writing a one-man show about it.
The above are right when they talk about the UU church being pretty cool. I’m an atheist and I fit right in with the population socially and politically. However, it’s still a church. I can’t hang with them. They still waste a lot of time talking to and about god. I’ve outgrown that in a way they haven’t. I can’t get into it.
I recommend, if you’re looking for community, local arts organizations or environmental organizations. They would welcome you. Between the local community theaters, the Opera and a local gallery I volunteer with, I mean, dude, I’m busy and social all the time. I’m planning on adding a local environmental group and community gardening this year, too.
I live in Tulsa, by the way. If there’s stuff like this here it’s gotta be there, too.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
@mlee
I understand what you are getting at. The church that I “belong to” has all kinds of interesting looking social events, including one which was led by the guy who was my football hero when I was in high school. However, since it’s all “god” stuff, I rarely attend.
However, churches understand how powerful social interaction is. Many people are afraid to leave a church because of that social interaction. So, the trick is to either find social interaction apart from the church, or find a church that is “god lite”. UU is pretty “god lite” compared to other churches, but it still would be too much for me, and Buddhism seems to replace god wit a lot of extraneous navel gazing. So I do my socializing in the context of my other activities, which, right now are pretty extensive.
However, once my Masters degree is done, I should have more time and disposable income for good old fashioned socializing, which I plan to do via hobbies like rocketry and science museums and stuff. Much better than the “holy name society”, but not as good as Joe D signing autographs…sigh..
February 7th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Thanks, rich, for dealing with the troll Zdenny this time around (and I’ll probably be labelled by him as an “angry atheist” for that comment!).
I just want to add to his comment, “there is no evidence that undermines the resurrection of Christ”. The Bible itself undermines the evidence!! My challenge to him is: take all four gospels and try to produce a harmonized version/timeline of the death and resurrection and surrounding events. It is impossible, as the four versions directly contradict each other in many, many details. So these guys aint’ telling the truth here, and regarding the Bible as an accurate and inerrant guide to events is not remotely possible.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:42 am
I’m curious if god has ever spoken to ZDenny. He sounds as though he’s been listening to an ass.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:54 am
At the UU I attend the minister and majority of the members are atheists. God isn’t talked about very much.
Of course I’m in the wild west so YMMV.
And Zdenny is simply a troll, and hateful. Gets around it by saying he’s all about love and then casts aspersions. @@ All of atheist literature! That’s laughable.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
“Here is where I left behind my fundamentalist beliefs and became simply conservative/evangelical. (However, it is important to note my fundamentalist attitudes were much more ingrained and did not leave so quickly. I still see shades of them today.)”
Curious as to what the differences were for you between fundamentalist and conservative evangelical. I was conservative evangelical and always thought of fundamentalists as having legalistic rules, eg. no alcohol, dancing, drums in church, etc. But the more I learn about evangelicalism the harder it is for me to see the differences between the two. I’m sure it varies from church to church or person to person though.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
atimetorend, I think you are probably right. I make the distinction for my own personal use. A line, if it exists, is most certainly blurry!
February 13th, 2010 at 2:12 am
I haven’t read all the comments yet, so I hope I’m not repeating something someone else has already said.
You absolutely must see Fantasia. The Night at Bald Mountain sequence is my favorite and totally mesmorized me as a child, although considering the imagery I’m not surprised that fundamentalist parents would not want their children to see it. It was probably the first major aesthetic influence on me and I want to thank you for mentioning it since I’ve just embarked on a series of paintings and I think that is relevant.
If you see it, you might also be interested in the story by Gogol on which it’s based.
Another piece of music in Fantasia is The Rite of Spring, which is my absolute, all-time favorite piece of music. I suppose the original ballet would also be something your parents wouldn’t have wanted you to see. Wow, there’s a whole world of “dangerous” art out there waiting for you.
February 13th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
“The Rite of Spring” and “The Firebird” are two of my favorite pieces of music, Jackybird.
Pete, I took the quiz in the link you quoted and came out with 100% Secular Humanism followed by 97% UU. Interesting since I found a local Humanist group through Meetup.com and am planning to attend their next meeting.
Laura, I thought about you today and wondered if you’ve ever considered being a counsellor/Social Worker for a hospice. Talk about the importance of being able to tell your story to someone who is objective and compassionate, as I am sure you well know.