Heart of Hearts
Saturday, February 6th, 2010
I have a feeling I’m about to not explain myself very well, but I’m going to try.
Through the last few years, life has been a series of peaks and valleys. The good news is that the peaks are getting higher and lasting longer while the valleys are becoming farther and farther between. They still exist, however, as any regular reader well knows. Really, I’ve been on a peak for about the last month, so a week of a valley isn’t such a horrendous ordeal. During the valleys, Facebook becomes dangerous, as I look into the lives of the people I used to know and see what I tried to become. During the valleys, I get really hypersensitive and annoyed by the religious crap people post, as a few of my online groups have seen. 
I don’t envy the lack of growth I often see (sorry, old religious Facebook friends 
), but I do envy how nicely their lives have so far turned out. And I wonder, if there was a god, why would he pick me to walk through what I have in a way that shook the foundation of my faith to its core, whereas he gives others doubts they can handle? I don’t think my faith was any less strong at all. So it’s really annoying when I see people, in real life or anywhere on the Internet, talk about how they have all the answers.
Oh, really? Well, then what’s my answer? What was the magical formula that was supposed to make everything all better for me? And not just me, don’t get me wrong. I’m talking about me because I have the most experience with me. I know from emails and other websites I read that I am far from the only one who has had everything I knew violently stripped away.
So, secretly, in my heart of hearts, sometimes I wish that somebody else I knew would go through what I went through. Not that I want anyone to suffer in any way. Not at all, and if I think about it in those terms, I immediately recant and feel guilty. But I have to admit I wouldn’t mind seeing another former friend who has all the answers find out what it’s like to realize that the answers we were given simply gave us a false sense of security. That those answers weren’t really answers; they just made us feel better because we thought we had them. Like in apologetics classes and seminars, how we watched videos of stumping the atheist or learned how disseminate a philosophical idea. Only you get out into the world and realize that those answers didn’t really fit the questions, or are very unsatisfactory. To learn that there really aren’t any answers for a lot of the questions we have.
Sometimes it’s frustrating to feel like the only one. Like I failed because I “gave up” on my faith, whereas my other friends faced trials and problems and didn’t give up on theirs! The judgment, the condescension. It gets old. And it gets to the point where you know it’s going on behind your back instead of to your face because of the comments and emails you get that are so nicey-nicey, and you know somebody said something about you because of other things (I am being vague on purpose because I don’t want to give away the most recent example of how I do know for a fact that this happened!). And then there is a bunch of people who simply don’t care. And a bunch of people who do care–about the gossip! And a few more who genuinely care but don’t know how to show it.
Do I need them? No. Do I care about them? In some ways. I don’t really know how to explain why it’s so annoying. I am sure most of you already know, though. I think I have probably connected about five ideas that don’t really go together, so my apologies if there is any confusion.
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February 6th, 2010 at 5:55 am
There’s an aphorism: “To know all is to forgive all”.
February 6th, 2010 at 6:55 am
Laura,
The ones that Lord is going to used in a significant way always go through the hardest time. You can’t see the end, but the Lord can. That is why faith is always the best choice when going through a tough time. Your faith and your wisdom both grow as you learn from those experiences so that you can be used by God to help others.
God Bless..
February 6th, 2010 at 7:30 am
“Sometimes it’s frustrating to feel like the only one. Like I failed because I “gave up” on my faith, whereas my other friends faced trials and problems and didn’t give up on theirs!”
May I suggest you look at this from a completely different perspective? They failed because they gave in to faith. You won the race. You made it out!
February 6th, 2010 at 8:20 am
Why do we have to listen to Christians yammer on in your comments? No offense to the person that seems to do this the most, but I don’t want to have to read his/her stupid comments and thoughts. They’re certainly entitled to have those thoughts and voice them, I just wish they’d “voice them” some fucking where ELSE. I’ve had to listen to that CRAP for 40 years.
Laura you’re very kind and tolerant, in my opinion, because if someone was posting that rhetoric on MY blog, I would be deleting faster than they could post. It’s not like they don’t have ENOUGH grandstands for their little “views.” You’ve obviously become someone’s “goodwill project.”
But about your blog post. Trust me, you’re not the only one, and personally, I consider it more like freeing myself from slavery to corruption and twisted dogma than any kind of failure. FAITH, incidentally, has nothing to do with church, church PEOPLE, or Christianity as an organized cult….err, I mean….religion.
February 6th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Speaking from experience (there’s patronizing for you)…
I don’t know that life gets better – you just start to accept it for what it is.
You’re current problems will go away, I do know that – but they will be replaced with other ones that make the ones you have now seem like nothing.
Not that they are nothing – you’ll just know how to deal with them. Eventually you get to the stage where you may not know how to deal with things, but you do know that you will figure it out (or you just won’t care).
One thing I do know, is that no one – no matter how smart they think they are or how many holy books they’ve got – no one has the answers. And any who says they do is a liar or a fool (it is exactly how we got into the economic mess we are in that moment).
February 6th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Hi Red,
This is the first blog post of yours that I’ve read, so I really know nothing about you other than what you’ve revealed here, but I was struck by the sense of sadness that comes through. I don’t know if the following will help or if it’s even relevant to you, but just in case I’d like to describe briefly how I think about such things.
Though raised Catholic, I don’t think I ever really had a strong “faith”. I guess I did believe what I was taught about “God’s” existence, and even prayed thinking there was someone listening. However, in my late teens I gradually realized more and more that so many religious teachings just don’t make sense and in fact, don’t even pass the laugh test.
However, it wasn’t until my 50′s that I really took the final step to atheism, giving up all hope for any sort of interacting god or eternal individual spirit or soul. Do I miss that? Not at all. Those concepts never really made sense to me either. I admit it would be comforting to think that my deceased parents were still conscious entities and that I would be able see them again, but I know that’s not how it is.
Many people think that if “God” and the afterlife don’t exist, that life then is meaningless and not worth living, or not worth living well. But, in my case, I am just amazed at the facts of life, consciousness and existence itself, and these way more than make up for the loss of a god. As Richard Dawkins put it:
“Matter flows from place to place
And momentarily comes together to be you.
Some people find that thought disturbing
I find the reality thrilling.”
(By the way, see symphonyofscience dot com for quotes such as this beautifully put into music.)
I believe that if religious people were more attuned to the amazing findings of science about the universe, that their sense of awe and wonder at “God’s Majesty” can still be there, just without the god part.
So, don’t worry about what others think, especially others who believe in fallacies. Just tune in to the wonder of existence and enjoy it while it lasts.
February 6th, 2010 at 11:22 am
You are the one who is stronger and braver, to face life as it is, without the various medical equipment employed by the religious (emotional crutches, rose-colored glasses, the finger splint of smugness, etc.). But I understand the desire to make them experience what you did, and indeed not out of malice but because you want them to understand.
“Stumping the atheist…” This is easy! Just ask for a solid, empirically verified quantum theory of gravity! Although, I guess that’s a case where “there really aren’t any answers for a lot of the questions we have.”
You could go with asking them to prove properties of the largest sporadic finite simple group. This is known, but would still stump most of us atheists
February 6th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
How did you look with your husband and baby girl to all the people who saw you from the outside? Did you look like a perfect, happy little Christian family who others may have envied? But inside was pure chaos and turmoil? Who is to say that their lives are oh so peachy-keen purely based on what they allow you see on Facebook? All that says about them is that they are willing to wallow in denial while you wanted more out of life. And I say brava to you for not just taking what your church and family was willing to offer to you…like throwing a dog a bone.
You have such a keen mind that you couldn’t help but question what you were given. I guess wondering what if is just the trade-off for being so gosh darn inquiring and observant.
February 6th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
I know what it feels like to think you’re the only one who can’t achieve X no matter how hard you try. For me it is a different set of struggles, of course, but I relate to the feeling of trying so hard and not having things come together, while other people don’t seem to try so hard and yet it seems as if everything works so much easier for them. In my head I know that everyone has lots of struggles, but it can be hard for my emotions to believe that. And I don’t want other people to struggle, I’d rather us all be pretty happy… Oh well. What you were saying about questions reminded me of a song, “I’ve got better questions than I have answers, better dreams than I have plans…”
February 6th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Laura,
May I suggest you not compare yourself to others by looking at their facebook pages, etc. I say this because you don’t know for a fact (I’m assuming) their lives are really as good as they say. You only have their word for it and in my experience, Christians present a rosier view than is actually true because Christianity is “supposed to” make their lives better.
I don’t mean to cast stones, but it’s known as “lying for Jesus”.
February 6th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Hey there. I read occasionally and don’t comment often, mostly because so many of your posts are working out personal issues and hey, that’s you. I’m not qualified to give advice.
What a striking and brutally honest question. I’m betting these are the type of people who are always rolling out the “Oh, you just need to X” lines, where X = some canned Christian advice. I’m betting some of them mean well, and that others are probably into the advice business for themselves.
Maybe they don’t confront their doubts honestly? You do.
But to answer your question, I don’t think God wants the type of people you allude to. I was reading some sports magazine about one of today’s up and coming basketball players. He spoke much about his ambition to be the best player the game ever saw. I thought about how society would generally value that and call it a good thing (I would, too). I also couldn’t help but wonder if this 21-year-old would retain the positive exuberance his countenance suggested if he were to have that dream stripped from him? Do you think the “happy, faithful Christians” you allude to would retain their happy faithfulness if everything they had was stripped from them? Where the answer is “no” the faith might not be as strong as projected.
You are truly living, and honesty cannot fail.
February 6th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Yesterday my wife and I noticed police cars at my neighbor’s house. They are very fervent apostolic christians who have not passed up many opportunities to chide us for our lack of church attendance or our lack of extreme political conservatism. My wife asked me to see if I could find out what was going on, so I googled his name and found that they had been going through divorce proceedings since last summer and we watched in utter disbelief as he removed his things from the residence in quite a huff. They put up such a face that it has us all in shock (well not me, I’m atheist remember) because they were most active in the church and ever so pious. We’ve been both married about the same number of years, both have kids. But when my wife and I have a disagreement, we actually have to work things out and compromise, we cann’t use their coping method of “We’ll just pray about it”.
Why I say this is, that sometimes it is harder to face your problems than to avoid or delegate them, which is what christians do, but in the long run, “real” effort in reality, almost always bests ignorance in a fantasy world.
February 6th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
I hear frustration, and even though I’m a dude, I won’t try and solve your problems, which is a common and major mistake of my half of the sexes. No one has all the answers, even your fakebook friends and even if it seems like they do; but given that, it must be frustrating to observe them. “I gave up on my faith,” and perhaps you feel guilty (or not, I don’t know). I think it shows how nice a person you are and how committed you were. Self blame is natural and any normal person would feel the same-see that you are normal, normal-ish.
I’m newish to the blogging, facebook and twitter, but it seems to me that there are real and genuine people out there that care, and I’m sure that they care about you. Keep blogging and tweeting, I really enjoy your thoughts and work. Good luck
Your follower on twitter, an occasional reader and your internet friend,
Kriss
February 6th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
RE:
zdenny Says:
February 6th, 2010 at 6:55 am
“The ones that Lord is going to used in a significant way always go through the hardest time. You can’t see the end, but the Lord can. That is why faith is always the best choice when going through a tough time. Your faith and your wisdom both grow as you learn from those experiences so that you can be used by God to help others.”
In other words, ZD, you think that god uses people’s experiences, hard times or good, to design an environment for others, perhaps non-believers? If god interfered in this way would he not be infringing on our right of self determination? The “advertisements” made by an all powerful god would surely be either too influential, and take away a bit of our will (who could resist an advertisement made by the almighty?), or not influential enough and thus not give us the divine clarity that we need to save our soul.
In practicality, believing in a fictional god is not the best way to weather the hard times as believing that sky daddy will take care of you causes one to be feel powerless and weak and not stand up to life’s reality. For example, the kid who believes his big brother is going to fight all of his battles will not learn how to handle himself amongst the bullies, he’ll just submit and threaten his big brother’s wrath, and hope that the other kids believe in his big brother’s ferocity too.
February 6th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Why do you use the word, “failure” in connection with your loss of faith, young’un?
I really wouldn’t, I think you no more “failed” as a christian than you “failed” as a child when you became an adult, or “failed” as a sleeper when you woke up this morning.
From what I’ve read that you’ve written, you simply became a bit more honest with yourself, and that’s a state that a whole lot of people never achieve. Some can’t, others simply won’t. Much too painful.
Things take time: cut yourself a little slack, cover every inch of ground you stand on, and be honest with yourself.
And yeah, it can get lonely, scarey, and progress can be slow when you’re walking off the officially beaten path.
I’ll never meet you, but I’m in your corner, wish you, your child, and your young man the best.
February 6th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
I agree with Scott M.’s comment above of not thinking that the life someone presents on-line (facebook, etc.) has anything to do with their real (inner) life.
A little mantra I have to remind myself of frequently is- “Don’t compare my insides to other people’s outsides…” (Does that make sense? I can see the whole of who I am (good, bad, ugly), but I can only see the veneer of others, so it’s an unfair comparison if I look at my ugly insides and compare them to another person’s polished exterior.)
February 7th, 2010 at 5:45 am
@Lori
While I can understand your frustration, Laura is committed to allowing anyone to post. However, she recently put out some rules, which basically boiled down to “Don’t be a colossal prick”, which cut down on the number of words our buddy up there has been able to write.
I think that the Christians who post here are excellent reminders of why Laura, and most of the rest of us (although I don’t know everyone’s story, and my realization of reality was much milder). He comes up with endless amounts of pap in the name of “Christ’s love”, yet each post seems to be a mixture of intolerance, revulsion, and hatred.
Consider his post above. He is trying to “comfort” Laura by telling her that god thinks she’s special, so he’s hammering her extra hard. So she’s supposed to love suffering from depression. So, rather than work her way through the depression, and go through scientifically tested treatment methods …
(Laura…did you think of trying another musical instrument? Or could you possibly save enough for an inexpensive electronic keyboard? I realize that these aren’t real pianos, and there would be frustration learning something new, it still could provide some benefit…)
…he wants her to suffer through it to “prove her faith”
This way, he blames the victim, clears his conscience that “he tried”, and gets to strut away in self righteousness.
While we shake our heads and note that he is precisely the kind of person who destroyed our faith in the first place.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:47 am
I’m thinking, eventually, really bad things are going to happen to everyone. We live in a broken, and fallen world.
My husband actually lost his children, and marriage after he became a Christian believer. We are all going to experience the death of our loved ones, illness, etc.
Every Christian will at some point experience a “crisis of faith,” and understand that we don’t have all the answers. Partly, it’s a matter of years, and experience.
Laura, I think you need to be more gentle with yourself. Give yourself, and those friends, the gift of time.
February 7th, 2010 at 10:08 am
I would also ask what Aridawn asked, in terms of the picture you presented to outsiders while you were struggling with your faith and marriage. Simply because someone looks like they have it together on Facebook or in person doesn’t mean that they actually do. They simply might not have an outlook to express their doubts and struggles. Especially because they’d know the judgment and condescension they’d face.
February 7th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Rich H.,
How can another person have a “power over to destroy our faith?”
I don’t always agree with everything ZDenny says, but I sense that he genuinely cares, and is trying in his own way to help.
I wouldn’t call this man’s posts, at least the ones I’ve read, nothing more than a mixture of “revulsion, intolerance, and hatred.” Is it possible that you are projecting more into these remarks than what is actually there based in your own experiences?
How about showing him some kindness, and mercy??
February 7th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
“Every Christian will at some point experience a “crisis of faith,” and understand that we don’t have all the answers…”
Yes… I would think that this might be a tip-off to reconsider the whole system. Scientists don’t have crises of faith about science, for two reasons: 1. they’re already skeptical. They know that the theories they’ve worked out are very good approximations, but not, excuse the term, “God-given truth”. Science is subject to revision. 2. Science works. If you doubt something, you can rederive the formula or redo the experiment yourself, and it works. I don’t have to rely on some guy in robes telling me that “science works in mysterious ways” when I think something doesn’t make sense.
My point is, religions fail on both of these points. Some of them do a bit of point 1., and allow you to question some things, but never the big ones. And if prayer worked (not in a “sometimes when I pray I feel loved” sense, but in a “pray in this way and there is clear communication with something outside yourself” sense), there would be no atheists.
February 7th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
“Grace Says:
February 7th, 2010 at 7:47 am
I’m thinking, eventually, really bad things are going to happen to everyone. We live in a broken, and fallen world.”
Wow, I see what you’re saying, sure was a shitty designer wasn’t there!
“My husband actually lost his children, and marriage after he became a Christian believer.”
Assuming your husband wasn’t from the middle east or something, this comment doesn’t make sense and frankly sounds untruthful. In the Americas the courts don’t take away custody for being a christian, they more typically do it because of mental unbalance or hostility. Ask yourself what is the REAL reason he lost his kids.
“We are all going to experience the death of our loved ones, illness, etc.”
Every Christian will at some point experience a “crisis of faith,” and understand that we don’t have all the answers. Partly, it’s a matter of years, and experience.”
Don’t you really mean that in every christian’s life there comes a point where they begin to peer through the bullshit? They realize that it doesn’t all make sense or work the way it should. They don’t have answers for a lot of obvious questions so the struggle until mental fatigue sets in and either they ignore the contradictions or become atheistic.
February 7th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Lori, I pretty much just skim past those type of comments to make sure they aren’t breaking any rules, then ignore them. Feel free to ignore as well.
@HumanistDad, yes, that’s right. I should have put “faith” in quotes, because I was thinking about how they regarded me. To lose faith would be seen as failure on my part. But I don’t see it as a personal failure. I have too many others to worry about that!
And you are all right about the “how I looked to others while still a Christian and so depressed I could barely move” comments. Very right. It’s hard to separate what people show to the outside world vs. what’s really going on. I need to remember to do that. I forget.
I would look into UU if I weren’t just burnt out on church in general. I may do that in the future, if Steve and I move once he graduates and we no longer have a good group of secular people to hang out with at the school/there’s no community freethinker group.
February 7th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Mlee,
I’m assuming you’re a young person.
It’s easy to harshly judge others, and trash their faith. Harder to realize the limits of our own experience, and understanding, and to be open to the possibility of God.
Taking a blogger vacation, Laura, so wouldn’t be around for awhile to comment.
Pray that you will come out of your slump. You have a wonderful future with Steve, and your precious little girl.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:19 am
Grace, prayer = wishcraft.
As for “thrashing their faith”, on what do you base your opinion? I’ve read nothing from Laura that does that.
If you must be censorious, at least show your basis for it!
February 8th, 2010 at 4:35 am
Duh. Grace, I misattributed your comment to Mlee as referring to Laura.
Since calling Christianity “bullshit” counts as thrashing it, I retract that portion of my comment, and apologise.
April 8th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
What a breath of fresh air to take the edge off after a stressful day. Excellent writing that really gets the thought covered. Cant thank you enough for taking the time.